WiFi 6 Migration

Hey community,
Planning on upgrading to the new AP 6's in the near future and am curious about the new cloud platform.
From previous posts I realize Floor Plans are no longer used, but what about WIPS, Troubleshooting, Monitoring and the other features on the old platform?
Appears that the new cloud platform only offers Access Point Sites and basic SSID configuration. Or do I need to purchase a new AP 6 device and subscription, then register the AP for these features to become available?

Lastly, do I need to completely remove my current WiFi 5 network and devices before installing the WiFi 6 network and devices? I ask this because if I install a new AP with the same SSID and password as my existing network, the WIPS on the AP 5's will block or quarantine anything trying to connect to the new AP and mark it as rogue.

I have read all the technical documentation here:

https://www.watchguard.com/help/docs/help-center/en-US/Content/en-US/WG-Cloud/Devices/access_point/ap_wgc_get_started.html

Along with watching videos and demonstrations by WG Partners, but can't seem to find definitive answers as to a migration strategy or what security / monitoring features are available in the new cloud.

Any insight would be much appreciated :-)

  • Doug

It's usually something simple.

Comments

  • WIPS is not available yet. No idea when. James indicated that there will be a Beta for it.

    I have a AP330. There isn't much available in the cloud for this device yet compared to the wi-fi 5 options.
    A few graphs per AP - Network Usage, Top Clients
    A Device Summary, a few Diagnostic Tools options.
    You have to download a diagnostic file to see anything that may be logs but I can't see anything useful in the log files. Look like this is really for support.

    I have not seen a wi-fi 6 roadmap anyplace.

    There is a beta for wi-fi 6, with not much going on at the moment.
    "The Wi-Fi in WatchGuard Cloud beta site serves as a centralized beta site for all beta features for Access Points that have been added to WatchGuard Cloud."
    The AP432 Access Point General Availability announcement on the beta site was on April 5th.

  • After a TON of research, using the WLC on the device(s) over the years and in recent years "Total WiFI"...the answer was clear. Change to Meraki for wireless. At the price point and level of function (as well as lack luster tech support)...well, just last night I took down four AP125's from two smaller facilities and replaced with some very cool Meraki at a bit of a lower price. In the coming weeks we are taking out about 40 AP420's on the same project.

  • I get what you are saying @TestingTester, and have been looking at Aruba, Ruckus, and others. Sorta abysmal when I can run down to the local Home Depot and pick up a $49 Belkin wireless router that has more features than the new WG Cloud.
    A major hurdle is product availability. The lower end AP's from most vendors are available, but any enterprise grade hardware is nowhere to be found.
    I have a new Aruba switch that has been on backorder for three months now.
    The new WG AP's are in stock from a local partner and for a reasonable price.
    WG has always delivered excellent products at a fair price, guess I was hoping for more with the new AP's and Cloud.

    It's usually something simple.

  • I was looking for more as well. Seriously, however, just yesterday playing with an AP320 (Total WiFi) I was not able to get a client to move more than 48MB of data (speed test)...Meraki I was almost three times that. For politics I understand the saying is "It is the economy, stupid" - for WiFi, "It is the speed, stupid". End users could care less about what we see on the back end for management...but, when the "O" level exec's say they want to get Spectrum WiFi in the facilities because "it is five times faster at home" - well, that speaks volumes and ruled out any offering from WG in a hurry. They, again are very late to the game, and then not playing in the the same league as many other players. I would say they are more focused on other things such as AuthPoint or what ever....we left that as well......for many of the same reasons....

    I can not imagine changing my edge and UTM devices...the rest of our networks are rapidly leaving WG for greener pastures.

  • On my laptop, using Ookla Windows app, I get 153 Mbps download speed from Xfinity 300/25 Mbps service, using my AP330.
    The laptop is about 20 feet from the AP and is using the 5 Ghz connection.
    The laptop does not have wi-fi 6.
    I get much higher throughput with the AP330 compared to my old AP300, using the same wireless devices (none of which have wi-fi 6) in a low wi-fi use environment.

  • We are running Meraki wifi every where and have been a happy customer for nearly 8 years. Still have many old MR18 AP´s running though out of SW support. Soon time for a upgrade to never Meraki AP´s.

    We are also using their switches in all our retail stores and again very happy with the management capabilitiesm but we also have some legacy Cisco and HPE switches to our SAN´s and Hyper V clusters.

  • Trying not to put salt in a wound here, but I did purchase an AP430CR for special event outdoor use, after I got it up and running in the cloud I updated the firmware and now it won't obtain an IP address. Just flashes orange dots at me. Tried different switches, networks, DHCP servers. No go.
    Submitted a support case. Hoping to reset it to factory defaults and try again.

    Also joined the Beta program, so instead of whining I can actually help a little.

    It's usually something simple.

  • @shaazaminator said:

    Also joined the Beta program, so instead of whining I can actually help a little.

    I stopped doing that in production environments - period and can not do a real test in any of my other play areas (like my home network). I even switched my home network to Meraki wifi as I like to have my home the same as our facilities...I even get better bandwidth and management from $100 Meraki GO products than I get from an AP320 (that now sits in my closet). It is heavy....if that counts :-)

  • james.carsonjames.carson Moderator, WatchGuard Representative

    Hi @TestingTester
    Some of the beta programs provide hardware for you to test with at no charge. Everything is announced and can be joined at watchguard.centercode.com.

    If you're running into a throughput issue with any of WatchGuard's APs, I would suggest opening a support case.

    @shaazaminator If you can reply with the case number I can go make sure your case landed with the correct team to help with that.

    -James Carson
    WatchGuard Customer Support

  • Support case for WiFi issue? Really? Been there, done that - not worth my time (or we would not be taking down so many of their AP's). Seriously. When it was a WLC AP it was "Go to Cloud", then it was "You need total WiFi". We moved all but one facility from cloud back to WLC (it performs better) and now are going to Meraki - so, there you have it.

    Besides, Support needs to be working on some of the VPN issues a bit more than WiFi....

  • I have to agree with all of these complaints. My main complaint is that the new AP's require subscription to function. Well, I guess they will keep working as long as you don't change anything. At least thats what the docs say. So many other providers providing AP's that don't require subscriptions and have more options you don't have to pay extra for. Wips is a cool feature. But Watchguard thinks their AP's are extra special. I have been mostly pleased with them but if they are now telling me I have to pay yearly for the privilege of using them then I am done with them. 1 year $60 per unit, no thanks. Trying out the new TP-Link Omada line of access points. Free web managed. Looks like they are trying to be like Ubiquiti, which I might also go back to.

  • Had to RMA the AP.
    After trying to reset the AP to defaults it never booted again. Solid orange lights.
    New AP arrived today so hopefully better luck.
    WG Support has been very helpful and I appreciate that.

    It's usually something simple.

  • @kcarpenter said:
    TP-Link Omada line of access points.

    We had put them into one of our staff members homes. He has four between the main house and one in a horse barn area. So far, I guess they are working great. I do worry a bit about Fast Roam without a WLC, not like the WG one ever worked very well.

    In smaller environments the MerakiGo APs seem rock solid and cost $100, or, just a tad more than a 1 year on an AP125...with a very cool interface and far greater performance. I am not sure if you have a LAN when your WAN is out with MerakiGo however, I might need to look into that. Performance wise, at one facility where we took out an AP125 for a Meraki...4 times faster WiFi and the only thing that changed was the AP to one that cost far less.

    I am not sure sure WG even cares.

  • > @TestingTester said:
    > We had put them into one of our staff members homes. He has four between the main house and one in a horse barn area. So far, I guess they are working great. I do worry a bit about Fast Roam without a WLC, not like the WG one ever worked very well.
    >
    > In smaller environments the MerakiGo APs seem rock solid and cost $100, or, just a tad more than a 1 year on an AP125...with a very cool interface and far greater performance. I am not sure if you have a LAN when your WAN is out with MerakiGo however, I might need to look into that. Performance wise, at one facility where we took out an AP125 for a Meraki...4 times faster WiFi and the only thing that changed was the AP to one that cost far less.
    >
    > I am not sure sure WG even cares.

    My biggest issue with the WiFi 6 line is that all of the standard tools one would use for troubleshooting have been totally stripped away save for a few setting tweaks, packet capture, basic network commands (ping, tracert, nslookup), and a text file we have to read through.

    While they are missing features like lov RF scan, RF environment, the ability to kick a sticky client off of an AP, WIPS, Mesh (for clients that we can’t run cable through yet), Floorplans that can then get WAPs placed to do a preliminary heatmap, etc. Most of these features are already IN Unifi/ Aruba/ Meraki WAPs and WG is still working on getting them in the new WAPs…

    I personally have an issue when I can get a Unifi device that is generally cheaper (and without a subscription) but can do significantly more than what the current WiFi-6 line up at WG which doesn’t even currently give discounts for buying WAPs in bulk like other vendors.

    The current feature line up is hard to justify the cost.

    ~T
  • It is hard to understand why WG expects existing WiFi 5 AP customers who have all of the mgt etc. features to be the least bit happy with the total lack of them with the current WiFi 6 AP roll out.
    And customers need to use 2 different WiFi mgt platforms too - 1 for WiFi 5 & 1 for WiFi 6.
    Not customer friendly.

  • Well, I got my replacement AP from the RMA and WG Customer Service already had it added to the Cloud.
    Plugged in the new AP, waited, and waited, and all I get is solid orange LED's. Which means either booting, or hardware failure according to the Quick Start Guide they send.
    The AP was able to obtain an IP address and network config from my DHCP server which was good, so I was able to ssh into it and download the syslog which I posted to the case file.
    If I try and add the AP into my devices in the cloud, I get this error when trying to change the ssh password:

    Failed to post data ((305): No configuration data found. Try removing and re-adding device to WGC. [request-id 1-62795763-78d40e4f31cc586403adaec0])

    Hopefully WG gets back to me soon. Really don't want to RMA again.

    It's usually something simple.

  • edited May 13

    "> @shaazaminator said:
    I was able to ssh into it and download the syslog which I posted to the case file."

    This is why I gave up on WG WiFi - my time has value, WG does not understand that. Plus, when my customers (End Users) are coming to me telling me how great their WiFi at home is.......during a budget meeting where we are talking about AP's that are six times more costly AND have a recurring cost? Um, no.

    I did open a case last Wed on an SDWAN issue, I closed it on Tuesday and it never did leave "initially reported" status....typical for WG these days.

  • Feel your pain sometimes @TestingTester , opened the case on Friday, no response until Wednesday after I called asking for an update.

    Come to find out my issue appears to be a bug in the new WG WiFi Cloud, according to WG Support. Moved onto Engineering now. AP wants to connect, the Cloud won't let it due to the RMA swap for some reason.

    I'll let the coders pound that one out.

    Had a very nice meeting and demo with the folks from Juniper. Their MIST platform is pretty nice.

    It's usually something simple.

This discussion has been closed.